V & Shreyas, Yes I'm a fan. Coolest bad guy ever. And for someone who was so bad, he was extremely good to children, dogs and his wife. He married only once. He paints swell too. And come on, history would be boring without him.
s w a t, 10!
Shiva, Dei No way, I searched adolf hitler. You suggested Pankaj advani and michael jordan. :| Plus I took all the pains to search for Extremely large images. (We were designing a poster only. :P ) And FTLOG, change your picture :O
i'm with sharan on this one!!! maybe hitler butchered jews but that not withstanding,Hitler was a genius! Mein Kampf is considered one of the most important managerial books!AVe Fuhrer!
I just read the "fan" bit, the last time I read it, I only looked at the picture.
Sharan, you have GOT to be a little more than messed-up-with-wrong-idea-of-coolness if you think Hit-fucking-ler was cool.
And history would be interesting if the good guys just did their job better. Because it's so hard to do and everyone wants to know how they did it. Please, please don't resort to ends like "Hitler was cool", it sounds wayy more dangerous for anyone who has understood the implications, than you can understand.
Maybe you should just read Mein Kamph.
Seriously, all we need now is a hurrah for the terrorists who are bombing all our Indian cities, that should finish it.
(in case you haven't figured-- I'm really shocked and what's worse, disappointed)
Ok, The bastard did fuck up the world irreversibly. He did a lot of terrible stuff. But I didn't say I was a fan of what he did, hell no one can be a fan of what he did unless they're messed up.
He did all that stuff to people all over Europe, and still he could go home and be gentle to people around him. One guy could make such an impact on the world.
"And history would be interesting if the good guys just did their job better. Because it's so hard to do and everyone wants to know how they did it. Please, please don't resort to ends like "Hitler was cool", it sounds wayy more dangerous for anyone who has understood the implications, than you can understand." And puh-leese don't patronize, I didn't resort to any end, all I've said here is out of choice, and not because there's no other way.
He was the coolest bad-guy. good guys were cooler, maybe. But yea he was cool, yea in a dark way, he was bloody intriguing. He was fucked-up but intriguing.
Maybe I should read Mein Kamph.
And you're going emotionally overboard with all the cheering for the terrorists part. I did not cheer for Auschwitz, nor did I cheer for Mumbai, nor will I. But I will be a fan of hitler, it's my choice. I'm not a fan of Osama or any of the other bastards, why? Because they are total no-good-ers, atleast as far as I know.
1) I was voicing my opinions here, so to "shocked and disappointed, ok, so what?" I'd say, "So nothing-- it was a part of how I was feeling about the whole thing, so I wrote that down. Obviously, I didn't expect it to make a difference! But I understand your reaction, because my argument would have very well been complete without that."
2) Of course they're intriguing! ALL the bad guys are! What Osama is doing is no less than what Hitler did. And if you're talking about the whole "he's-good-to-family-and-animals" thing, then well, you should know that NONE of these fellows are exceptions when it comes to that. It's how a human being is made-- they had families, they supported them, they were nice to them. It was the "fan" bit that bothered me. What are you a fan of? The fact that he can be responsible for so much carnage but can play with puppies as well? That, oh my God, he's such an AWESOME guy coz he's done bad, bad, bad things, on such a level,and no one else has come close to that? I'm not being patronizing, I was only making a request, coz it seemed to be a little strange that you could be a FAN of his, and actually try to separate his activities from him as a person.
I read the link. All the link does is accept him as a phenomenon, which I don't deny--but it doesn't glorify him. And even if it did, I don't care, just the way you don't, because I still think it's dangerous to become a fan of a person like that. They are all phenomenons, him, Osama, Saddam, Veerappan. It doesn't change what they've done, is my point.
I was not being emotional about the Indian cities bit-- if you noticed, there was no reference to Bombay in particular-- it was the very fact that there is an operation that tried to create havoc in so many different cities that I was referring to. I mean, if you could be a fan of Hitler because he was a "cool bad guy", then I was wondering what was stopping you from being a fan of all these fellows.
It's OBVIOUSLY your choice, I never denied that. You think it's my place to tell you what to think or to force you to retract or something?! There are obviously two sides to every story. You're saying you believe in something, I'm saying I disagree. Let's not bring choice into this.
First of all, sharanya, thanks for reading that :).
What Osama did was no less than what hitler did? No, Hitler was way way better than him or any of these people here. His leaderhsip was unparalleled. These people raise suicide-bombers and suicide killers. Not armies. This guy actually brought Germany to where it is here. And if you'd read that link you'd have seen that jews would be unnoticed right now if it weren't for him. (That is a bit too much, I mean finding a silver lining in the cloud of the holocaust, forgive me)
Hmm, about the families or whatever part. You don't know about these guys well I see. These people leave their families and go to training camps to be trained for suicide missions. None of them even have families they look after. And none of them give a shit about their fellow men even. But Hitler raised an army of people who wanted the same thing and they worked as a team, regardless of whatever their objective had been. The holocaust is the single most disastrous event this world has ever seen. He could have avoided that but we don't know what could've happened if he'd avoided that. Who knows what would've happened.
He was a phenomenon you say! Why is it so wrong to be a fan of a phenomenon?!
As to why I'm nto a fan of all these people here - Lots of people studied about Hitler. The poison kitchen incidents and all, and they revealed a lot about him. He could paint, he designed the entire skyline of germany, the military buildings etc. in short, he was doing all the stuff he did for his country, which did not have a place on the map back then.
Why are these guys doing what they're doing now? They already have their country. Why are they starting religious wars?
Sometimes you don't know why you're drawn towards some and not to the others. Hitler's character sketch(If i may say so) interested me,( leaving all the holocaust stuff apart, speaking about which, I'm interested to know why the americans are hell bent on removing it from their syllabus) Osama's did not. There's no flair or Spirit there.
P.s : This verbal-exchange (albeit virtual) reminds me of the scratchy-kittens-thing :P
Oh God, I keep thinking that I'm going to leave it at "It's his choice, let him think what he wants", but no, Sharanyan Ravi, you distract me from my paper, you bad person, you.
Ok--
1) Osama Bin Laden, if we're talking about him. Osama is an example of continuous terror, if you know what I mean. No one can find him. No one knows what he does from where he his. He has set up THOUSANDS of these camps, and Sharan, if they were all put together, they'd form something much bigger than an army. Today a 9/11 or an Iraq war or even all those attacks in India are no less terrorizing than the Holocaust. On what basis are you trying to figure out who is a better leader than the other? By the number of people who died? The innovative ideas with which they were killed?!
A phenomenon may not always be a good one. An earthquake, God dammnit, is a phenomenon-- which sane person would want one?
But you get my point. I'm not asking you to worship one, or choose one over the other. I'm just..marvelling? At the readiness with which you became his "fan"-- which implies that you admire him. Exactly what you can admire about a man who was responsible for wiping out half the Jewish population is strange.
Let's leave it, ok? You're determined to like him, I can't understand why-- I mean, there's a limit to which you can admire the planning and spirit of a lunatic without sucummbing to the WHOLE of him--- so let's just drop it.
(Yeah, though this is one level higher than scratchy kittens. This is growling panthers or something :D)
No one can find Osama because he doesn't want ot be found sharanya. His country doesn't support him. He was an outlaw! hitler was pretty much an outlaw. An accepted outlaw, if there's ever such a word! The ONLY thing you hold against him is the holocaust!
And believe it or not I WANT to experience an earthquake and a volcano and a tornado before I die. No kidding.
And, ahem I'm not at lengths to succumb to hitler but I will sure as defend him if it's something I'm for. I'm not defending the holocaust by a long shot.
*screeches* THE ONLY THING????? WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?????? WASN'T THAT EPIC ENOUGH??????????????????????
Gosh, I can't even think of a parallel. It's like saying-- God, the ONLY thing that happened to Lady Di was that she was killed in a car crash, like, HOW is that a valid excuse for missing her?! Or oh, wait, the ONLY thing that Hitler did was to extermintate half of the Jewish population. I mean, that's ALL.
That link was very interesting, and made a good point:
"No one person in the 20th century has had such a profound effect as "the German Führer". He raised a robbed, starving, broken, and defeated people into a well fed, motivated, happy, prosperous, industriously advanced and highly successful nation. This was all achieved in peace-time in an unbelievable six years."
However, at what cost? And although it may be argued that "Hitler's hostile attitude to Jews was neither irrational nor aberrant; he simply saw the Jews as Jesus Christ did before him. Jesus said to the Jews: "You belong to your father, the devil and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him." (John 8:44)" this does not justify his cause.
This whole discussion (which I quite enjoyed, I might add, very thought-provoking) raises an interesting conundurm for me. I like to believe that people are inherantly good. But I don't know if that means we are therefore all capable of great evil. I also don't know what it means for great evil-doers of history like Hitler and Stalin. The point you make about "for someone who was so bad, he was extremely good to children, dogs and his wife" is almost exactly the same as I read in an autobiography somewhere (The Glass House?) about someone's mother who said there is good in everyone, and when asked about Hitler, said he was kind to his dogs.
This also reminds me of a couple of essay topics for our IB exams w regards to Hitler and Stalin; that they were good for the country (see first quote), but bad for the people (see Sharanya's entire argument). Still not sure where that leaves them as people...
JaG, Nothing justifies the holocaust. I haven't read the bible and I don't have any info on what Jesus might or might not have said, but if He did say that, and if He did believe that, people were/are willing to let go of that tiny detail because of all the other glorious things He did.
I guess Hitler was the germans' living god, back then.
And yes, all beings ARE capable of evil. It's the choices that matter.
In short, Hitler put his country before the rest of the world, in a time when his country was just an inkblot on the map.
Asmita, Hell yes!
This is the most comments I've got for any post, and this too for a picture of a pokemon dictator. Couldn't have done that without Hitler. ;)
For more comment/s (because you're a comment-whore, clearly ;-)) and an explanation:
""Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
"The verses say those that do not believe that Jesus comes from the Father are sons of Satan. Hence, the verses say either you are with Him and believe in Him or you believe Satan. The language applies to Jews and Gentiles both, not just Jews."
I haven't read the Bible either, hence why I need to look this kind of thing up. ;-)
The irony, is that I read all the comments after mine after I have done a post on religion. Man.
@ Sharan:
Does it matter? You get the point, don't you? Nothing justifies anything he did-- and I know you agree-- which is why I still CANNOT understand why you find it cool.
@ JaG:
I know. My only problem was that Sharan (yes, that's his name too :D) was he's a FAN of Hitler after everything he did! I mean, how long can you hold painting skills and goodness to puppies as reasons to like a guy?! Or wait, to become a FAN of his?! (actually, make all that "is")
@ Harshni:
There will be no knock-out :D Coz he believes in what he does, and I believe in what I do. We run parallel, we'll never meet :) THOUGH THAT STILL DOESNT EXPLAIN WHY HE FINDS HITLER AWESOME! (is a fan, whatever)
Also, Sharan, since I want to make this argument a little light, http://historicaltweets.com/2008/11/05/a-young-adolph-hitler-twitters-away/
Thanks to JaG for the Indira Gandhi link, which led me to this :)
As for that, yea it makes sense. You'll do better notifying the guy wrote that post, that :)
Comment-whoring? Not so glam as photo-whoring :D
Sharanya. Sigh. Nothing justifies his treatment of the jews. That's all. Everything else is what results from wanting power.
And the germans did get what they deserved in the end. All the officers died in prisoner camps, didn't they? Horrible deaths even. Even german officers who'd helped jews were killed weren't they?
The only thing I don't get is why can't I be a fan of a bad guy! I'm not gonna pick on any jew, hell I won't even know a jew from another unless they have a board on their face with JEW written all over it. So why does it bother you if I'm a fan of the single most influential guy in the history of this world? Why can't i look at it from a historian's or just an interested-fellow's perspective without putting myself in the position of the jews?
"I mean, how long can you hold painting skills and goodness to puppies as reasons to like a guy?! " - You very well know it isn't that trivial.
I DO think it's terribly trivial considering everything else he has done. If he were a normal guy, some harmless dude next door who could paint and play with puppies, sure. Otherwise, in the light of all that mass murdering, YOU know pretty damned well that it isn't!
Oh come on, you circle in the on the guy-next-door-loving-puppies argument ONLY. You don't answer my other questions.
For the last time. no one studies or takes interest an insignificant perosn who paints or loves dogs, because those come normally for ordinary people as well. Hitler who did all this, could also do all that. And none of this was reflected in that. He didn't paint violence. He didn't practice anti-jewism in paintings. He could separate something as huge as his quest of power from his life.
I don't care if it isn't fro you but that is intriguing enough for me.
Hitler....hmm..makes for an interesting discussion...
he never became the leader of Germany by popular acclaim or choice...manipulative politics through propaganda that aimed at vindicating the Germans from their follies and blaming the Jews for all the miseries appealed to the war ravaged reich...period...
there is a long history of anti-Jew sentiments in Europe even before Hitler..it did not start with him..it definitely ended with him though...
he was never a solid military tactician...good generals are measured by their ability and leadership once the shit hits the fan..his early success was a walk in the park..such hostility from one of its own came as a surprise in europe...his leadership severely lacked in quality once the allied offensive began...
he was never a great administrator...there was wide spread corruption in Nazi Germany and it was not all rosy for the common man in the third reich...
the enigma surrounding his personality is partly because of the innumerable actions and decisions that are at times wrongly attributed directly to him..nobody even bothers about the impact of the decisions of some of his careerist and lunatic subordinates like Heydrich and Himmler...nevertheless he has to be held responsible as the head of state
i think the 38 count comment section is courtesy to incomplete understanding of an individual who managed to f*** up some 70 years back...his legacy will always be the heights of evil that mankind has ever witness...whether he was a painter or puppy lover would always remain insignificant...
Manipulative politics is what everyone does. Hitler wasn't the pioneer as far as that was concerned.
He was never a good enough tactician. Yes he was outwitted by the russians and the americans what with the scorched earth policy and stuff. He wasn't perfect, thank God for that. But he did thwart the numerous attempts at killing him and it was tough as hell getting to him.
There was corruption but the common man was satisfied. The jews and the poles weren't but the germans were, unless they helped the jews :P.
The allied forces attacked from all sides. Germany couldn't take it. I don't think any nation could've brought up a quality defense strategy that could've denied them at that time.
The fact that he painted or did any good deeds at all, makes his psyche all the more fascinating, when he could cold-bloodedly slaughter so many people.
loads and loads of flaming :D.... I'll add my 2 paise
I think labeling yourself a 'fan' is basically saying you admire the guy. Now WHAT you admire him for is hollow to be honest.
If Hitler helped Germany rise from the ruins of WW1 then he pushed them back further after WW2. You have to look at the sum of all his deeds and also the nobility of his purpose.
Why is it only antisemitism that pops up, why don't people talk about what he did to handicapped, mentally retarded people and homosexuals ?
Politics is driven by agendas, Hitler's agenda was evil, antisemitism was only a part of it. The purpose of ALL his deeds was evil in its essence. That's all that matters.
I wouldn't be surprised if you said you admired Che Guevara tomorrow because you liked Motorcycle Diaries.
Che was miles better than Hitler though :P
This might sound Jingoistic but if you wanted to be a fan of a strong administrator, we've had quite a few good ones back home.
I don't think even the germans give a rat's ass to Hitler now. He was an embarrassment to them if anything.
If I read motorcycle diaries I'll be a fan of Che's for his motorcycle diaries, of course.
At last someone who says hitler was not only about anti-semitism. That guy believed in racial purity, fanatic about it rather so he went to extreme measures to weed out the unfit. It happens naturally in nature but for humans it is evil, taking a fellow person's life because he is unfit. But I'm not a fan of him for that am I?
No man was such an influence in world politics. With a bad guy, there is no good guy. Because Hitler tortured and exterminated them, jews were noticed. As Hari says, anti-semitism and notions of racial purity were widespread, just that no one was extreme enough to order a mass extermination or powerful enough. Because of HItler, the oppression of the jews, homosexuals came into prominence and actions were taken against it. Again, evil but influential.
I think it's safe to say that we live in a different era, born into a world which is against all this.
Hitler was in the field of battle for a long time before he became a political aggressor. He saw battle and the first world war. He lived in the Germany that was in shambles. He brought germany up, like it's never been before. But unfortunately brought about its downfall as well, because his extremist ideals. But the foundation for Germany WAS laid by him. To him germany was god.
As to whether it's hollow or not, that is your opinion. I can't have a say in what you think.
As to having a few good administrators back home, yea we do. And yes I admire them for whatever they've done. Entirely even. Just because we talk about hitler doesn't mean we're ignoring them are we?
Judging anything that happened in those times in the modern light will never be accurate, so whatever good or evil Hitler did, it didn't go unnoticed. And I'm a fan of that.
I'm done with this page :P Anyone up for the final comment?
47 comments :
Thats not fair, making Hitler look cute. Not fair at all, I say.
heh.. hardy har har..
Oh my gosh! This is SO cute! I laughed for a good 2 minutes!
If anything, Hitler would feel devastated if he was made to look cute.
(Hitler did a lot of fucked up things, but yea, I'm a fan.)
Ha! Awesomeness! =) I'm going to show this to everybody -> lots more traffic to your blog. :P
Naaees :)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Ryan A Nash, you are one bored soul, but as long as you come up with stuff like this, I'm happy :D
You're a fan?
Ha, I am a fan too!
I like ! :D
but..
Hitler was the worst most vile mot#$%r fu#$#r to ever set foot on modern planet earth.
And you're a fan ? :\
I like him in WW2 movies/documentaries , because you need an interesting enough bad guy whose ass you want kicked.
how come u get the credit....i came up with searchin for adolf hitler :(... leaf blower!!! (remember friends??? :P )
Su, I'm not complaining :P
Sharanya, Bored soul is an understatement :|
V & Shreyas, Yes I'm a fan. Coolest bad guy ever. And for someone who was so bad, he was extremely good to children, dogs and his wife. He married only once. He paints swell too. And come on, history would be boring without him.
s w a t, 10!
Shiva, Dei No way, I searched adolf hitler. You suggested Pankaj advani and michael jordan. :| Plus I took all the pains to search for Extremely large images. (We were designing a poster only. :P )
And FTLOG, change your picture :O
I'm not pro-nazi, if that's what you get from that. :p Just that he makes a nice specimen
can't think of a smarter dictator
*hitler tosses n turns in his grave (probably laughing at 'hit-achu', but, we'll never know)*
i'm with sharan on this one!!! maybe hitler butchered jews but that not withstanding,Hitler was a genius! Mein Kampf is considered one of the most important managerial books!AVe Fuhrer!
I just read the "fan" bit, the last time I read it, I only looked at the picture.
Sharan, you have GOT to be a little more than messed-up-with-wrong-idea-of-coolness if you think Hit-fucking-ler was cool.
And history would be interesting if the good guys just did their job better. Because it's so hard to do and everyone wants to know how they did it. Please, please don't resort to ends like "Hitler was cool", it sounds wayy more dangerous for anyone who has understood the implications, than you can understand.
Maybe you should just read Mein Kamph.
Seriously, all we need now is a hurrah for the terrorists who are bombing all our Indian cities, that should finish it.
(in case you haven't figured-- I'm really shocked and what's worse, disappointed)
i think i can hear a few a few AH-64s circling coimbatore..
agreed with sharanya..
Sharanya & Hari
Ok, The bastard did fuck up the world irreversibly. He did a lot of terrible stuff. But I didn't say I was a fan of what he did, hell no one can be a fan of what he did unless they're messed up.
He did all that stuff to people all over Europe, and still he could go home and be gentle to people around him. One guy could make such an impact on the world.
"And history would be interesting if the good guys just did their job better. Because it's so hard to do and everyone wants to know how they did it. Please, please don't resort to ends like "Hitler was cool", it sounds wayy more dangerous for anyone who has understood the implications, than you can understand." And puh-leese don't patronize, I didn't resort to any end, all I've said here is out of choice, and not because there's no other way.
He was the coolest bad-guy. good guys were cooler, maybe. But yea he was cool, yea in a dark way, he was bloody intriguing. He was fucked-up but intriguing.
Maybe I should read Mein Kamph.
And you're going emotionally overboard with all the cheering for the terrorists part. I did not cheer for Auschwitz, nor did I cheer for Mumbai, nor will I. But I will be a fan of hitler, it's my choice. I'm not a fan of Osama or any of the other bastards, why? Because they are total no-good-ers, atleast as far as I know.
Shocked and disappointed, ok, so?
http://www.rense.com/general51/strange.htm
I'd come across this long back. I think you should read this.
Alright--
1) I was voicing my opinions here, so to "shocked and disappointed, ok, so what?" I'd say, "So nothing-- it was a part of how I was feeling about the whole thing, so I wrote that down. Obviously, I didn't expect it to make a difference! But I understand your reaction, because my argument would have very well been complete without that."
2) Of course they're intriguing! ALL the bad guys are! What Osama is doing is no less than what Hitler did. And if you're talking about the whole "he's-good-to-family-and-animals" thing, then well, you should know that NONE of these fellows are exceptions when it comes to that. It's how a human being is made-- they had families, they supported them, they were nice to them. It was the "fan" bit that bothered me. What are you a fan of? The fact that he can be responsible for so much carnage but can play with puppies as well? That, oh my God, he's such an AWESOME guy coz he's done bad, bad, bad things, on such a level,and no one else has come close to that? I'm not being patronizing, I was only making a request, coz it seemed to be a little strange that you could be a FAN of his, and actually try to separate his activities from him as a person.
I read the link. All the link does is accept him as a phenomenon, which I don't deny--but it doesn't glorify him. And even if it did, I don't care, just the way you don't, because I still think it's dangerous to become a fan of a person like that. They are all phenomenons, him, Osama, Saddam, Veerappan. It doesn't change what they've done, is my point.
I was not being emotional about the Indian cities bit-- if you noticed, there was no reference to Bombay in particular-- it was the very fact that there is an operation that tried to create havoc in so many different cities that I was referring to. I mean, if you could be a fan of Hitler because he was a "cool bad guy", then I was wondering what was stopping you from being a fan of all these fellows.
It's OBVIOUSLY your choice, I never denied that. You think it's my place to tell you what to think or to force you to retract or something?! There are obviously two sides to every story. You're saying you believe in something, I'm saying I disagree. Let's not bring choice into this.
First of all, sharanya, thanks for reading that :).
What Osama did was no less than what hitler did? No, Hitler was way way better than him or any of these people here. His leaderhsip was unparalleled. These people raise suicide-bombers and suicide killers. Not armies. This guy actually brought Germany to where it is here. And if you'd read that link you'd have seen that jews would be unnoticed right now if it weren't for him. (That is a bit too much, I mean finding a silver lining in the cloud of the holocaust, forgive me)
Hmm, about the families or whatever part. You don't know about these guys well I see. These people leave their families and go to training camps to be trained for suicide missions. None of them even have families they look after. And none of them give a shit about their fellow men even. But Hitler raised an army of people who wanted the same thing and they worked as a team, regardless of whatever their objective had been. The holocaust is the single most disastrous event this world has ever seen. He could have avoided that but we don't know what could've happened if he'd avoided that. Who knows what would've happened.
He was a phenomenon you say! Why is it so wrong to be a fan of a phenomenon?!
As to why I'm nto a fan of all these people here - Lots of people studied about Hitler. The poison kitchen incidents and all, and they revealed a lot about him. He could paint, he designed the entire skyline of germany, the military buildings etc. in short, he was doing all the stuff he did for his country, which did not have a place on the map back then.
Why are these guys doing what they're doing now? They already have their country. Why are they starting religious wars?
Sometimes you don't know why you're drawn towards some and not to the others. Hitler's character sketch(If i may say so) interested me,( leaving all the holocaust stuff apart, speaking about which, I'm interested to know why the americans are hell bent on removing it from their syllabus) Osama's did not. There's no flair or Spirit there.
P.s : This verbal-exchange (albeit virtual) reminds me of the scratchy-kittens-thing :P
Oh God, I keep thinking that I'm going to leave it at "It's his choice, let him think what he wants", but no, Sharanyan Ravi, you distract me from my paper, you bad person, you.
Ok--
1) Osama Bin Laden, if we're talking about him. Osama is an example of continuous terror, if you know what I mean. No one can find him. No one knows what he does from where he his. He has set up THOUSANDS of these camps, and Sharan, if they were all put together, they'd form something much bigger than an army. Today a 9/11 or an Iraq war or even all those attacks in India are no less terrorizing than the Holocaust. On what basis are you trying to figure out who is a better leader than the other? By the number of people who died? The innovative ideas with which they were killed?!
A phenomenon may not always be a good one. An earthquake, God dammnit, is a phenomenon-- which sane person would want one?
But you get my point. I'm not asking you to worship one, or choose one over the other. I'm just..marvelling? At the readiness with which you became his "fan"-- which implies that you admire him. Exactly what you can admire about a man who was responsible for wiping out half the Jewish population is strange.
Let's leave it, ok? You're determined to like him, I can't understand why-- I mean, there's a limit to which you can admire the planning and spirit of a lunatic without sucummbing to the WHOLE of him--- so let's just drop it.
(Yeah, though this is one level higher than scratchy kittens. This is growling panthers or something :D)
--Your chemical reaction.
No one can find Osama because he doesn't want ot be found sharanya. His country doesn't support him. He was an outlaw! hitler was pretty much an outlaw. An accepted outlaw, if there's ever such a word! The ONLY thing you hold against him is the holocaust!
And believe it or not I WANT to experience an earthquake and a volcano and a tornado before I die. No kidding.
And, ahem I'm not at lengths to succumb to hitler but I will sure as defend him if it's something I'm for. I'm not defending the holocaust by a long shot.
Panther good. Kitten bad.
Accepted outlaw eh? what an oxymoron?
Hitler getting his ass kicked in Inglourious basterds is something I'm waiting to watch. The trailer is un-fuckin-believable.
Quentin Tarantino! \m/
On a more trivial note,Der Fuhrer is such an awesome title.
*screeches* THE ONLY THING????? WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?????? WASN'T THAT EPIC ENOUGH??????????????????????
Gosh, I can't even think of a parallel. It's like saying-- God, the ONLY thing that happened to Lady Di was that she was killed in a car crash, like, HOW is that a valid excuse for missing her?! Or oh, wait, the ONLY thing that Hitler did was to extermintate half of the Jewish population. I mean, that's ALL.
Seriously Sharan, that was just STUPID, now!
this is like a battle ground now :/
the posts ve become too big for me to keep up..
sharan(m) n sharan(f) tell me how this ends..
'slaughtered the wrong pig'
hehe.. :) churchill rocks
No, he only thing you hold against him. You can't hold anything against Lady Diana. :P.
Your comparisons suck. Hitler and Diana?
Oh wow. What a fascinating conversation!
That link was very interesting, and made a good point:
"No one person in the 20th century has had such a profound effect as "the German Führer". He raised a robbed, starving, broken, and defeated people into a well fed, motivated, happy, prosperous, industriously advanced and highly successful nation. This was all achieved in peace-time in an unbelievable six years."
However, at what cost? And although it may be argued that "Hitler's hostile attitude to Jews was neither irrational nor aberrant; he simply saw the Jews as Jesus Christ did before him. Jesus said to the Jews: "You belong to your father, the devil and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him." (John 8:44)" this does not justify his cause.
This whole discussion (which I quite enjoyed, I might add, very thought-provoking) raises an interesting conundurm for me. I like to believe that people are inherantly good. But I don't know if that means we are therefore all capable of great evil. I also don't know what it means for great evil-doers of history like Hitler and Stalin. The point you make about "for someone who was so bad, he was extremely good to children, dogs and his wife" is almost exactly the same as I read in an autobiography somewhere (The Glass House?) about someone's mother who said there is good in everyone, and when asked about Hitler, said he was kind to his dogs.
This also reminds me of a couple of essay topics for our IB exams w regards to Hitler and Stalin; that they were good for the country (see first quote), but bad for the people (see Sharanya's entire argument). Still not sure where that leaves them as people...
x
JAG
come on sharan and sharanya!! one of u deliver the knock out punch!!!
I still think Adolf Pikachu is cute :P
Hari, that entire page was awesome!
JaG, Nothing justifies the holocaust. I haven't read the bible and I don't have any info on what Jesus might or might not have said, but if He did say that, and if He did believe that, people were/are willing to let go of that tiny detail because of all the other glorious things He did.
I guess Hitler was the germans' living god, back then.
And yes, all beings ARE capable of evil. It's the choices that matter.
In short, Hitler put his country before the rest of the world, in a time when his country was just an inkblot on the map.
Asmita, Hell yes!
This is the most comments I've got for any post, and this too for a picture of a pokemon dictator. Couldn't have done that without Hitler. ;)
For more comment/s (because you're a comment-whore, clearly ;-)) and an explanation:
""Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
"The verses say those that do not believe that Jesus comes from the Father are sons of Satan. Hence, the verses say either you are with Him and believe in Him or you believe Satan. The language applies to Jews and Gentiles both, not just Jews."
I haven't read the Bible either, hence why I need to look this kind of thing up. ;-)
x
JAG
The irony, is that I read all the comments after mine after I have done a post on religion. Man.
@ Sharan:
Does it matter? You get the point, don't you? Nothing justifies anything he did-- and I know you agree-- which is why I still CANNOT understand why you find it cool.
@ JaG:
I know. My only problem was that Sharan (yes, that's his name too :D) was he's a FAN of Hitler after everything he did! I mean, how long can you hold painting skills and goodness to puppies as reasons to like a guy?! Or wait, to become a FAN of his?! (actually, make all that "is")
@ Harshni:
There will be no knock-out :D Coz he believes in what he does, and I believe in what I do. We run parallel, we'll never meet :) THOUGH THAT STILL DOESNT EXPLAIN WHY HE FINDS HITLER AWESOME! (is a fan, whatever)
Also, Sharan, since I want to make this argument a little light, http://historicaltweets.com/2008/11/05/a-young-adolph-hitler-twitters-away/
Thanks to JaG for the Indira Gandhi link, which led me to this :)
JaG,
As for that, yea it makes sense. You'll do better notifying the guy wrote that post, that :)
Comment-whoring? Not so glam as photo-whoring :D
Sharanya. Sigh. Nothing justifies his treatment of the jews. That's all. Everything else is what results from wanting power.
And the germans did get what they deserved in the end. All the officers died in prisoner camps, didn't they? Horrible deaths even. Even german officers who'd helped jews were killed weren't they?
The only thing I don't get is why can't I be a fan of a bad guy! I'm not gonna pick on any jew, hell I won't even know a jew from another unless they have a board on their face with JEW written all over it. So why does it bother you if I'm a fan of the single most influential guy in the history of this world? Why can't i look at it from a historian's or just an interested-fellow's perspective without putting myself in the position of the jews?
"I mean, how long can you hold painting skills and goodness to puppies as reasons to like a guy?! " - You very well know it isn't that trivial.
(As for the link, :P, good 'un)
I DO think it's terribly trivial considering everything else he has done. If he were a normal guy, some harmless dude next door who could paint and play with puppies, sure. Otherwise, in the light of all that mass murdering, YOU know pretty damned well that it isn't!
Ps: Thanks :D Actually, thank JaG!
Oh come on, you circle in the on the guy-next-door-loving-puppies argument ONLY. You don't answer my other questions.
For the last time. no one studies or takes interest an insignificant perosn who paints or loves dogs, because those come normally for ordinary people as well. Hitler who did all this, could also do all that. And none of this was reflected in that. He didn't paint violence. He didn't practice anti-jewism in paintings. He could separate something as huge as his quest of power from his life.
I don't care if it isn't fro you but that is intriguing enough for me.
Hitler....hmm..makes for an interesting discussion...
he never became the leader of Germany by popular acclaim or choice...manipulative politics through propaganda that aimed at vindicating the Germans from their follies and blaming the Jews for all the miseries appealed to the war ravaged reich...period...
there is a long history of anti-Jew sentiments in Europe even before Hitler..it did not start with him..it definitely ended with him though...
he was never a solid military tactician...good generals are measured by their ability and leadership once the shit hits the fan..his early success was a walk in the park..such hostility from one of its own came as a surprise in europe...his leadership severely lacked in quality once the allied offensive began...
he was never a great administrator...there was wide spread corruption in Nazi Germany and it was not all rosy for the common man in the third reich...
the enigma surrounding his personality is partly because of the innumerable actions and decisions that are at times wrongly attributed directly to him..nobody even bothers about the impact of the decisions of some of his careerist and lunatic subordinates like Heydrich and Himmler...nevertheless he has to be held responsible as the head of state
i think the 38 count comment section is courtesy to incomplete understanding of an individual who managed to f*** up some 70 years back...his legacy will always be the heights of evil that mankind has ever witness...whether he was a painter or puppy lover would always remain insignificant...
Hari,
Manipulative politics is what everyone does. Hitler wasn't the pioneer as far as that was concerned.
He was never a good enough tactician. Yes he was outwitted by the russians and the americans what with the scorched earth policy and stuff. He wasn't perfect, thank God for that. But he did thwart the numerous attempts at killing him and it was tough as hell getting to him.
There was corruption but the common man was satisfied. The jews and the poles weren't but the germans were, unless they helped the jews :P.
The allied forces attacked from all sides. Germany couldn't take it. I don't think any nation could've brought up a quality defense strategy that could've denied them at that time.
The fact that he painted or did any good deeds at all, makes his psyche all the more fascinating, when he could cold-bloodedly slaughter so many people.
Sharan, I demand you delete my comments :P
loads and loads of flaming :D....
I'll add my 2 paise
I think labeling yourself a 'fan' is basically saying you admire the guy. Now WHAT you admire him for is hollow to be honest.
If Hitler helped Germany rise from the ruins of WW1 then he pushed them back further after WW2. You have to look at the sum of all his deeds and also the nobility of his purpose.
Why is it only antisemitism that pops up, why don't people talk about what he did to handicapped, mentally retarded people and homosexuals ?
Politics is driven by agendas, Hitler's agenda was evil, antisemitism was only a part of it. The purpose of ALL his deeds was evil in its essence. That's all that matters.
I wouldn't be surprised if you said you admired Che Guevara tomorrow because you liked Motorcycle Diaries.
Che was miles better than Hitler though :P
This might sound Jingoistic but if you wanted to be a fan of a strong administrator, we've had quite a few good ones back home.
I don't think even the germans give a rat's ass to Hitler now. He was an embarrassment to them if anything.
If I read motorcycle diaries I'll be a fan of Che's for his motorcycle diaries, of course.
At last someone who says hitler was not only about anti-semitism. That guy believed in racial purity, fanatic about it rather so he went to extreme measures to weed out the unfit. It happens naturally in nature but for humans it is evil, taking a fellow person's life because he is unfit. But I'm not a fan of him for that am I?
No man was such an influence in world politics. With a bad guy, there is no good guy. Because Hitler tortured and exterminated them, jews were noticed. As Hari says, anti-semitism and notions of racial purity were widespread, just that no one was extreme enough to order a mass extermination or powerful enough. Because of HItler, the oppression of the jews, homosexuals came into prominence and actions were taken against it. Again, evil but influential.
I think it's safe to say that we live in a different era, born into a world which is against all this.
Hitler was in the field of battle for a long time before he became a political aggressor. He saw battle and the first world war. He lived in the Germany that was in shambles. He brought germany up, like it's never been before. But unfortunately brought about its downfall as well, because his extremist ideals. But the foundation for Germany WAS laid by him. To him germany was god.
As to whether it's hollow or not, that is your opinion. I can't have a say in what you think.
As to having a few good administrators back home, yea we do. And yes I admire them for whatever they've done. Entirely even. Just because we talk about hitler doesn't mean we're ignoring them are we?
Judging anything that happened in those times in the modern light will never be accurate, so whatever good or evil Hitler did, it didn't go unnoticed. And I'm a fan of that.
I'm done with this page :P Anyone up for the final comment?
I mean "without a bad guy, there is no good guy"
hail
If anybody actually cares, the artist name is Simona Groosa, she is a game artist from Romania: https://www.flickr.com/photos/simonagroosa/
Some more recent works: https://www.artstation.com/simpson
She also curated an art gallery a while back: http://cloudking.com/
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